It is damp and dismal here in the Valleys of South Wales, UK. There’s a misty/foggy feeling to the view from my window which hides much of the glorious autumnal colours. A wind waves branches and leaves and I’m grateful to be safe, dry and warm at home. A spotify playlist is gently playing through my Huawei Free Clips as gently potter around taking photos and panicking about what to write about today.
Let’s start with my current works in progress (WIPs)…
Yesterday I started on this one in a YouTube livestream. Just like what to write about in this blog, I didn’t have a clue what I was going to do! Well, apart from adding some distress inks to colour the white paper! Evergreen Bough, Peeled Paint and Aged Mahogany. Not as pale as they appear in the video/photo. But dark enough to ‘break’ the blank, white page.
The paper is half letter size and I’m using it in landscape; it’s much easier for me to use when videoing and I’m less likely to go out of view. I get so engrossed in the process of drawing I forget to check in still in frame. But hopefully I’m forgiven by the viewers.
All I wanted to do was to relax and enjoy the process of drawing and to try to limit myself to a small number of motifs and patterns. This is something I’d like to continue to do going forward…but who knows what I’m likely to do next. For now this works for me.
This one is something I’m working on away from the cameras. I’m using a letter-sized piece of paper and, again, a limited number of patterns/motifs. I’m using 0.5 and 0.3 Unipin fineliners as I find I really do like bolder lines. If I use finer pens it never feels right to me, and I think I have to learn to trust my own instincts and tastes a lot more.
It seems I’m also returning to not leaving much in the way of white space…but I think that’s more to do with the style of the art I’m creating.
What I do know now is that I’m feeling brain tired and need to nap before my meditation class this evening otherwise I’ll be good for nothing in leading the meditation.
It’s been a good couple of months since I last added an entry to my blog. It’s not that I haven’t tried to; it’s just that I’ve not been able to. Let me explain.
Since I had Covid back in October 2024, I’ve been experiencing chronic fatigue, a scattered and unfocused mind, and an inability to stay focused on a task for much time at all. Even as I type this, I’m losing my train of thought and have to pause often to try to work out what I was about to type or to find the words that just won’t come to the forefront of my mind.
I can spend 10 to 12 or more hours a day sleeping and still not feel refreshed. Taking part in everyday events or tasks is overwhelmingly tiring; not so much physically but mentally and emotionally.
Everything physiological has been ruled out. Covid coincided with me being prescribed a new medication. I’ve stopped that medication, with the blessing of my doctor, so to speak, to see if that was the cause of this fatigue. It’s not and I’m awaiting a review with the doctor soon. I think they mentioned a review to a post viral syndrome clinic or long covid clinic.
I can get really frustrated. Even my art isn’t as prolific as before. Though I get lost in it quite easily, I can’t do much more than 30 mins to 45 mins in a stint, if I’m lucky. Even now, I’ve spent less than an hour scanning in a couple of drawings, creating the images for social media, and getting this far in my blog and I could just fall asleep again. Not even perimenopause/menopause has been this bad…
So, this is the state of my health currently, fine and good apart from this pesky fatigue.
Arty stuff
I have been drawing, but not as much as I usually would have been doing. The two images above are just two that I have completed in the last couple of months or so.
The one on the right resulted in some enquires about buying it. However something weird was going on with the contacts and nothing ever came of it. But, when I’m up to focusing on what I need to do, I will be posting some artwork either on Ko-Fi or Etsy for sale. I wish I could say when, but …
So, I’m still creating, as the fatigue allows.
And so…
…it’s time for me to end this post and go and rest again – I feel so tired and sleepy and unfocussed once again.
All I can say is thank you for bearing with me. I’ll share when I’m able to, but I don’t think there’ll be any YouTube videos for a while as they are just too much for me to accomplish at this time. Hopefully, recovery is occuring, albeit slowly. Only time will tell, that’s for sure.
I’ve become a bit obsessed with making art journal bits and bobs over the last couple of days. This morning has been no exception, other than the more I do and watch, the more ideas that come to me.
Inchies
Yesterday, I created some blank, printable, templates for inchies, twinches and tea cards. I printed them out on plain paper so I could draw in them. I also made a list of themes I could tackle for them too.
I spent an hour or two filling in a sheet of inches with various designs. Then, I printed them on plain paper and also vellum for calligraphy. The vellum has a rough texture, interesting colours and subtle patterns in them. I have a laser printer, so wasn’t sure if it would print on the vellum; it did, however the print does come off if I’m a bit rough with it.
Nevertheless, I coloured some of the inches with Distress Inks and then adhered them to some 1″ tiles of thick chipboard card. I edged them with tresure gold wax from Imagination Crafts. Then, I gently applied a thin layer of Ranger’s gloss multi-media medium, to see if it would seal the laser printing; it did! It also brought out the colours of the Distress Inks.
Seed packets/envelopes
These are simple enough to make. There are plenty of tutorials online for them. I made them from ordinary printer paper, then coloured them with Distress Inks.
Next, I added some dot embellishments using a small ball tool with Imagination Crafts’ Starlights metallic paint in rich gold. This is a beautiful, glittery, shiny paint that leaves some dimension when applied this way.
Finally, I adhered the inchies I’d made, along with some vintage book paper, to the envelopes.
I’m not sure if these envelopes are finished. I do want to use them to store either journaling notes in, or little pieces of art or mementos in them.
Tags
I haven’t been at all sure about tags and using them. However, I thought I’d see what I could do with them after yesterday’s mucking about with a tri-fold tag that turned into one single tag.
I wanted to make some templates for cutting the corners at the top of the tags, so I did that, using various widths of paper and slopes to remove the top corners.
I then realised I needed something to store them in, so I made an envelope for them.
The envelope has a more rectangular top flap and a plain front, perfect for embellishments.
Backgrounds
Something occurred to me this morning while watching someone make tags using background paper. I thought that I could use my colouring sheets and entangled designs as my own background paper. So, I thought I’d try to use some.
I found some old designs on my computer and printed a couple of them both as the black line originals and with a grey line.
I made a tag and cut out a piece of one of the designs. I coloured the design with Distress Inks and used them to subtly colour the tag.
I didn’t like the way the neatly cut out background pattern looked when I placed it on the tag. So, I tore the edges. I still wasn’t happy, so I tried tearing it into strips. That looked better, but I still wasn’t happy with it, but I stuck the pieces down.
I used a gold glitter gel pen to add lines and patterns between the torn pieces, which created some pattern and interest.
Finally, I added a distress ink coloured belly band along with a word, “creativity” to the tag. For now, I tucked one of the seed packets behind the belly band.
The background drawing may be just too busy, detailed, and varied to work well. I need to bear this in mind going forward.
Notebook
I am keeping notes of how I make tags, pockets, and other bits and bobs in an A5 dot grid notebook, along with ideas for other things to do or try. It’s turning out to be rather useful as a reference.
Acceptance
I’m struggling with accepting that what I’m creating for my art journal is “good enough”, “attractive enough”, “pretty”. It’s not like others I’ve seen, which is part of my problem.
I seem to like, mostly, neat edges, borders on work, very organised, neat, and carefully, geometrically arranged elements in my designs. I know I want to use my own artwork to create a journal, but I’m not sure it’s going to be successful in any kind of way. I have no idea if I’m on a wild goose chase.
I know I enjoy making these bits and bobs, I just don’t know if the overall end products actually work, so I’m doubting myself. I’m not sure I like what I’m creating. I mean, I really like individual elements such as the inchies and little panels on the envelopes. It’s when I start to actually combine them or put them into a journal that it all seems to go more than a bit skew-iffy.
I’m at that uncomfortable place I often find myself in when I’m creating a mandala or drawing or digital painting; partway through I want to give up as I think that what I’m creating is awful and not working. With the mandalas, drawings and digital art, I’ve learned to work through that point and, mostly, to complete the work. I’ve learned by experience and perseverance that I can produce art I’m happy with.
I’m not at all sure of that with this art journal type stuff. I’m not sure at all if I can find my own creative ‘voice’ with this, or whether I have to accept that as much as I’d like it to be one of my ‘things’ it’s not meant to be and that I can continue to watch and admire others for what they create.
Maybe, I’ll end up making digital elements for journals for others to use in their creations. Maybe, I’ll find that collections of inchies are my thing (along with twinchies and tea cards and other little designs).
For now, I’ll take a bit of a break from it all, and come back to it with fresh eyes and a fresh mind.
Over the week I’ve been adding to my sketchbook- notes and images, ideas and reflections.
Each page has been coloured with combinations of Distress Inks, applied using the black side of a piece of Cut and Dry foam, followed with a spritz of water to bring out some water-staining grungy loveliness.
All the little drawings have been done on either Daler-Rowney Smooth watercolour paper (300gsm) or mixed media paper, either from Claire Fontaine or Daler-Rowney. The papers have been coloured with Distress Oxide Inks, Distress Inks, or a combination of them. Most of the pieces have had the inks applied with the foam, but some were made by brayering Distress Oxide inks onto a gelli plate and taking a print of them.
The reflection about what I like, what I don’t like, and ideas that arise is important to me in my sketchbook/journal. I do reflect on my art, a bit too much in my head. When I write it down, it forces my sometimes abstract and swirling thoughts into some kind of order. When I make these thoughts a material manifestation by writing them down, it helps me to recognise the thoughts, sift through that which is useful, and still record those that are not particularly useful at this moment but may be in the future.
I think I need to find a way to do this with my digital art. My mind goes to using One Note to do this. I shall think on this one, and make a note of it in my physical sketchbook/journal.
I’ve been creating a lot of little bits of art that I just don’t know what to do with. They’re often little experiments. Sometimes I mount them as greeting cards, other times they end up in a drawer.
This morning, I woke with an idea to start a sketchbook-come-journal as a place to keep safely and annotate some of these artworks. The annotation is important; it’s lots of notes to myself about the techniques and materials I used to create a specific type of effect, thoughts, ideas for the future, inspirations.
I dug out an A4 Goldline sketchbook to use for this. The white pages just looked uninteresting and stark to me. So, I added some colour using a piece of Cut and Dry foam and Distress Inks followed by a quick spritz of water. A blast from a heat gun, and the pages were ready.
I did prepare a couple more spreads with colour. I realised that if I did this after I’d attached my art to the pages I’d get all kinds of lines and marks that I wouldn’t want. So, I need to make sure I add coloured pages each time I add work to the journal.
I adhered the artwork to the pages using Tombow Mono liquid glue, outlines them with either a metallic or plain black pen, and then set to annotations and notes.
It also gives me a chance to practice my hand-lettering and to use design elements used in bullet journals or planners. I have to say that my handwriting appeared far more than hand-lettering. I used the hand-lettering for headings though.
I also let some of the design elements from the artworks to spill onto the page. I have a problem with leaving white space! This gave me a chance to remember media I have in my stash, such as the Chameleon fineliner pens, which I haven’t used much.
Some dangle designs appeared in one of the drawings, so I redrew them above it. And, of course, metallic gold gel pens add a touch of sparkle.
One thing I ‘discovered’ (maybe rediscovered) is how fab Copic Markers work to add colour and shadow to the Distress backgrounds. White gel pen adds bright highlights.
One thing I wanted to do was add notes about my digital art. I’d like to add prints of my art, but I only have a black and white laser printer. So, I’m going to see if I can have sheets of images printed via the web and posted to me so I can then use them in my journal too.
Part of me knows I could do this via One Note or similar, but there’s something lovely about having a physical record of the art completed and with notes to reflect on or get inspiration from in the future.
I am sure this is something I did in the past, but it’s time to do this again. It’ll be fun to add journal elements to the pages, like envelopes or pouches for notes.
I’ll have to be less of a perfectionist, something I still struggle with. I’m hoping it will help me me to recognise the value of work I’ve done that I may not be happy with, but can learn from and make notes about this, and ideas that arise, for future reference.
My #tuesdaytips are all to do with hand lettering this week, but taken generally, the advice applies to any skill, artistic, creative, practical or otherwise I’m sure.
Lots of people aren’t happy with their handwriting, for many reasons.
I actually am, when I don’t rush any ways. I worked hard on my handwriting when I was in school; I didn’t like my writing (it was too much like my mother’s), so I worked to change and develop it. It did take time and conscious effort on my part, but I enjoyed writing, I always did. Doing all my homework and re-writing and re-organising my notes in school and in University gave me plenty of practice in honing my handwriting skills.
However, handwriting and hand lettering are not the same thing.
Handwriting is something we do without a lot of thought about how we form the letters, it is a practiced, automatic skill.
Hand lettering involves drawing the letter shapes; it’s more of an artistic skill.
I’m working on my hand lettering skills. I’m happy with my handwriting, generally, but my writing is naturally very small. To write big, bold quotes and sentiments is a challenge for me, one that I had to face during my work on A Dangle A Day.
My first and most important tip about hand lettering is practice, practice and more practice.
Here are some of the pages from my hand lettering collection in my BuJo. The pens are a Uniball UniPin, a Faber-Castell Pitt Artist Pen and a Lamy fountain pen with a fine nib.
The more you practice, the more you develop ‘muscle memory’ which makes it easier to be consistent in your lettering in terms of shape and so on. It also helps it feel more natural and for you to speed up.
You can’t become an expert without first being a beginner.
My second tip is to start by practicing your natural writing style, your printing. In these days of fonts by the million and perfect replication by computer and printing, I like to see the unique style that only your hand can bring to your hand lettering.
Practice your own printing until you are happy with the shape and style of your lettering, keeping it simple for now. These letters will form the foundation of every other style you develop.
It’s easy to vary the style of your lettering by making simple changes to the letter height, width, line weight and so on. However, you need foundation letters you are happy with. So focus on this first and foremost.
My third tip is don’t compare your own writing to others’ or give up because you can’t seem to write as beautifully as you think they do. Practice, practice, practice and work towards becoming the best you can be; it doesn’t happen overnight, it takes a lot of time.
“Daily learning of your craft makes you a master of your craft.” – Seema Brain Openers
“If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn’t seem so wonderful at all.” – Michaelangelo
My fourth tip is to practice daily, or as often as you can. In my BuJo (bullet journal) I have a section on my monthly tracker for hand lettering practice. Keeping a BuJo means I do get daily hand lettering practice, but it’s still not enough for me to keep developing the skill.
There’s plenty of advice out there and practice sheets and exercises for hand lettering, calligraphy, faux calligraphy, brush lettering. What I like to do, however, is to write, using just my basic hand lettering ‘font’.
Writing out the alphabet again and again is productive, but not always enjoyable. It doesn’t help you with putting the letters together in terms of words.
One of my happy memories is of English lessons when I was in primary school (aged 7 to 11) where we used a book called ‘A New First Aid in English’ to learn about nouns, similes, verbs, plurals and so on. I enjoyed learning, but I enjoyed writing lists and answers down a lot too. It so happens I have a copy of this book, one of the few remaining books from my days as a science teacher, and so I dip into this as a source of material to practice my writing.
Of course, you can use anything you like – quotes, names, lyrics, poems, anything that you enjoy but won’t distract from the focus of drawing the letters.
The last tip I will give is to use paper with guide lines on. I printed paper out to suit my needs; I created it in Microsoft Publisher. Dot grid or squared (graph) grid paper works well too.
As it’s WIP Wednesday, I thought I’d share the cover of my current work in progress – A Dangle A Day. It’s all about drawing dangles and stuff the Angela Porter way. I’m doing all the illustrations plus the writing too! It’s not a colouring book, it’s a tutorial book. There’s going to be a little bit in it about BuJos (bullet journals) too!
It’s available for pre-order now on Amazon; release date is 6 Sept 2018.
Finally, today my reMarkable tablet has arrived, and I am so pleased with it!
I’ve had a few worrisome moments that I may have decided on something that wouldn’t be of much use to me, or wouldn’t work for me (as was the case with the Slate).
I need not have feared.
Although I’d like a bigger screen, one that is almost or a little bigger than A4 in size, the experience of writing or drawing on the reMarkable is as close to pen and paper as I think you can get. The sound of the pen on the screen is even reminiscent of the sound of pen on paper.
The friction between the screen and the pen tip means it feels like writing on paper too.
A totally pleasurable sensory experience.
Setting up was easy enough, you’re walked through it by the device and the website.
Using it after that is easy too, it’s meant to be.
I love all the different templates for different paper types that are available; there’s even music manuscript paper, as well as an isometric grid!
I have looked at the simple sketch/doodle I’ve done on the screen on the Surface, and ok, it’s pixelly, which you’d expect from a 100dpi png image. The page size is 8 x 10.5 inches (approx) which is perfect! It means I can export an image from the reMarkable to my puter and into Autodesk Sketchbook, adjust the resolution and then use the sketch as a basis for a finished drawing.
No scanning.
I detest scanning … but it’s now not necessary as long as I use the reMarkable.
Ok, there’ll still be times when I’ll need to scan work in, such as finished coloured works of art and so on, but as far as sketching out drawings and so on, well no more!
A plus side of this is that there could be a lot less paper ‘floating’ around my home! That would be great, there’s a big pile that is overdue for sorting and filing as it is.
Not only that, I can set up sketchbooks, yes books in the plural, on the reMarkable, so it should help me organise files on my ‘puter a bit better.
So yes, I’m happy.
Oh, did I mention that there’s different styles of pens and pencils, with different thicknesses? No? Well there is! Ok, not as many as in Autodesk Sketchbook, but enough to keep me happy.
Did I mention that the pen and surface is pressure sensitive? No? Well it is.
Lots of playing around to be done by me with it, and a lot of work to be done with it.
I’ve spent the last four or five hours creating this set of four ACEO/ATC cards. It’s been a while since I did any mixed media work, but I felt the need to get a bit messy.
Each card measures 2½” x 3½” (approx. 6.5 cm x 9 cm) with the substrate being some fairly thick Kraft card.
I started by using some yellow Frog Tape to hold the cards together so I could make the background at the same time.
I started by applying PaperArtsy Fresco Paints to the kraft card until I had a finish I liked. The colours I used were Cheesecake, Rose and Sherbet.
Once I’d finished applying the wax, I wasn’t happy with the result on the dragonflies, so I used Daler Rowney System 3 acrylic paint in Rich Gold to re-colour them. I was much happer with the results, especially the dragonflies that I’d coloured pink/red.
The next step was to have a furtle through various coloured diecuts I have in my stash. Every now and again, I spend a day cutting out various die cuts (mainly cogs, flowers and foliage, but sometimes other things too) and then colouring them to add to my stash. It saves on time when I have the urge to do some mixed media work. It also makes use of my rare urges to do die cutting, which I find a very tedious process.
After a good furtle, I found some cogs that would work on two ACEOs that had just the dots on the background. I couldn’t find anything I’d want to add to the dragonflies; I was just happy with them as they were.
I then chose some words from the Tim Holtz Chit Chat stickers and glued them down with the Cosmic Shimmer Acrylic glue, and used a damp brush and a China Black Inktense pencil from Derwent to add shadows around the stickers.
The very final step was to add some sparkly gems, and they were done! Once all is dry, I can add my information to the back and so on, and I have some ACEO cards to use on other mixed media projects or in my art journal.
Other arty news
Over the past week I’ve been keeping myself artfully busy learning a bit more about Autodesk Sketchbook Pro and how it works for me; you could say I’m building up a relationship with it.
For now, I’ve been drawing LOTS of mandalas! I’m keeping them back from t’internet as I hope to publish them (some are already spoken for by the Colorist app), and other people asked if I was going to make some available for purchase. So, I’m building up a collection of them for that purpose – either with a publisher, or I’ll self-publish if necessary. I’ve also done a couple more small mandalas that work nicely as designs to be coloured and made into greetings cards, kind of like digital stamps.
Talking of digital stamps (digi stamps), there are some ideas rattling around my noggin that I’d like to try out, so there’ll be more news on this later on no doubt.
It looks like I’m going to be doing a colouring book of spooky templates in the near future, so if anyone has any ideas for ‘spooky’ or ‘eerie’ then feel free to share!
I also have a few ideas for written books rumbling around my noggin; however, it’s really hard for me to do something with them as I doubt myself so much, think they’re silly ideas, and so on. The ideas aren’t wholly in my noggin, I do have notes on them on the ‘puter which need tidying up…but I’m finding it difficult to do this because of all my self-doubt and self-criticism. I just need to keep saying to myself, ‘But you have recorded these ideas so they are there for you, so you have made progress).
Other things going on in my life
A week ago, I finally had the hedge at the front of the house removed, as well as the back garden completely cleared. My garden is tiny, but it’s amazing how much space was hidden by the cotoneaster and forsythia! I do have some clean up to do, but there’s no great rush on that. I also need to consider what to do with the back garden.
The process of getting this done has caused me great anxiety, but there was an ah-ha moment when I realised that some voile panels in the windows in my front room would help me to feel ‘safer’ and more ‘private’ while letting in daylight. For a long time I’ve hid behind curtains; well, I still am, but at least I can see out through the voiles even if people outside can’t see in! Why I didn’t think of this a long while ago, I don’t know, but thank goodness I did!
I’ve done a couple of anti-stigma talks for Time to Change Wales, and I’m seriously wondering if I’m really making any difference as my story is so bland and ordinary … after all it’s not a dramatic tale to tell, and I really don’t think it’s anything people haven’t heard/seen on TV on the soaps and so on…so I’m really feeling quite downhearted about that at the moment.
I know it may very well pass, but at the moment … it’s difficult….my therapy? Art of course!
This is a little bit of a different blog post from me.
As I’ve mentioned before, I experience CPTSD (complex post-traumatic stress disorder), which presents itself in many ways, including anxiety, depression, and a low self-esteem.
I’ve had lots of counselling over the past eight years or so, and for the last two and a half years I’ve had a lovely therapist who specialises in EMDR therapy. It’s taken a long while for me to get to the point where I believe that such a gentle kind of therapy works, and works for me. It’s still a slow process…but progress is being made. A major change in employment nearly a year ago seriously helped with that.
Last week, my counsellor suggested I read a book called ‘Tapping In’ by Laurel Parnell. In the book, Laurel Parnell describes how the process of bilateral stimulation by means of tapping the knees or outer thighs can be used to reinforce a safe place, helpful guardians and other tools to help during both therapy and everyday life. My own therapist has successfully used it to reduce anxiety during a dental appointment as well as aiding in sleep.
She suggested I read the book and we do some work on the resources I need before continuing with EMDR as the last few sessions have left me rather upset, fragile, and, unsually for me, unable to find my ‘safe place’ at the end of a session, so that I can leave the fragile and upset state behind.
So, yesterday we worked on my safe place, with me coming up with a new one and ‘tapping in’ the contentment, peace and safety I feel when I imagine myself there. The bilateral stimulation from alternating taps to the outer knees, helps to reinforce the feeling of the place, and actually helps to intensify it.
I have no problem imagining places I can go to in my imagination; I’ve used guided meditations over the years for various purposes. When it comes to me coming up with my own imaginary places, it never ceases to surprise me what these places are like!
The other thing that was suggested after I’d verbally described my place, was to spend time over the week drawing/painting/creating images of this place, as well as practicing the process of tapping in my safe place and using it to help me manage my current high anxiety levels. (My anxiety intensified greatly yesterday, not as a result of counselling, but by the decision to hold a ‘snap general election’ and my worries about what is happening in this country, in the world, which then gets transferred to worrying about finances as I’m now self-employed, and so on and the constant chatter of anxiety winds itself up if I’m not careful).
Me being me, I get to it almost straight away…starting with these mandalas
Mandalas based on the feelings I get when I’m in my ‘safe place’.
“My mandalas were cryptograms concerning the state of the self which was presented to me anew each day…I guarded them like precious pearls….It became increasingly plain to me that the mandala is the center. It is the exponent of all paths. It is the path to the center, to individuation. ” – Carl Jung
So, I started with some abstract, intuitive mandalas to try to express the feelings I have when I think of my safe place, when I remember the feelings I have when I’m there.
Next, I wanted to draw some kind of representation of a view from one of the windows of my place. And this is what I came up with, though the view changes all the time!
Yes, I know water isn’t yellow, but in my inner world it can be! It also shimmers with gold and has lots of shining gold and blue ‘dots’ in it. Lots of happy creatures and colours there, all entertaining me … diverting my attention away from my anxiety.
Yes, I use art to help me manage my mental health. When anxious, doing art helps me become less so; when depressed, art lifts my mood. I’m sure the inner critic chatters away even when I’m ‘arting’, but the art takes my attention so the critic’s voice can be ignored.
Oh, before I drew anything, I took time to write a clear description of my safe place, as words are how I build up mind images.
I’m looking forward to ‘tapping in’ help for creativity, amongst other things… I’m also looking to intuitively drawing and creating some more of the living things that I can see from my safe place – all friendly and protective of course, nothing scary allowed there! Which suits my tendency to rather whimsical, cutesy, artistic style.
So, I’ve shared a little of my ‘safe place’, but I’m keeping a lot of details to myself – no offence, but I don’t want any gate crashers there!